<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: SHIP SQUAT PART 1:ARE WE OUT OF OUR DEPTH?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/</link>
	<description>The Pilot Online Edition</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:04:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reg Holder</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-281851</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg Holder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 10:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>Yes very interesting. My own previous experience is of Messaieed -Qatar.
We had tankers upto 320K dwt and usually had to use the tide to exit and maximise cargo. Maximum drafts were calculated for UKC of 1.22m (4.0ft) upto 150 kdwt and 1.5m (5.0ft) over that. (Previously it was 0.91m (3.0 ft) for under 100 kdwt but had it raised.) Exit speeds were upto 14 kts and tidal height had to be calculated precisely to arrive in the outer channel with sufficient UKC.
We always looked for a particular the shoal patch in the outer channel and slowed down before this area or as as soon as any vibration was noticed. It appears to be a very small allowance but in general no reported problems occured while I was there though great care was exercised by the pilots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes very interesting. My own previous experience is of Messaieed -Qatar.<br />
We had tankers upto 320K dwt and usually had to use the tide to exit and maximise cargo. Maximum drafts were calculated for UKC of 1.22m (4.0ft) upto 150 kdwt and 1.5m (5.0ft) over that. (Previously it was 0.91m (3.0 ft) for under 100 kdwt but had it raised.) Exit speeds were upto 14 kts and tidal height had to be calculated precisely to arrive in the outer channel with sufficient UKC.<br />
We always looked for a particular the shoal patch in the outer channel and slowed down before this area or as as soon as any vibration was noticed. It appears to be a very small allowance but in general no reported problems occured while I was there though great care was exercised by the pilots.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lou Vest</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-50221</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Vest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>Regarding Jeremiah&#039;s comment.  We do not experience bumps or groundings due to squat in Houston.  The bottom is clay/sand/mud and there is no significant variation in depth.  We transit over 35 miles from the sea buoy to the head of Galveston Bay at speeds of 10-13 knots in vessels drawing up to 45&#039; of draft.  The channel depth is maintained at 47&#039; so we frequently transit with less than a meter of underkeel clearance.  We have two way traffic and pass other vessels in the channel.  

I think the bottom configuration at the mouth of the Orinoco is very different from the case we have in Houston.

The point I was trying to make is that vessels do not squat in very shallow water so long as the approaches are uniform and gradual.  This is an easily verifiable fact that Dr Barass and the hydrodynamics experts choose to ignore.  The math that predicts squat in these circumstances is flawed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Jeremiah&#8217;s comment.  We do not experience bumps or groundings due to squat in Houston.  The bottom is clay/sand/mud and there is no significant variation in depth.  We transit over 35 miles from the sea buoy to the head of Galveston Bay at speeds of 10-13 knots in vessels drawing up to 45&#8242; of draft.  The channel depth is maintained at 47&#8242; so we frequently transit with less than a meter of underkeel clearance.  We have two way traffic and pass other vessels in the channel.  </p>
<p>I think the bottom configuration at the mouth of the Orinoco is very different from the case we have in Houston.</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make is that vessels do not squat in very shallow water so long as the approaches are uniform and gradual.  This is an easily verifiable fact that Dr Barass and the hydrodynamics experts choose to ignore.  The math that predicts squat in these circumstances is flawed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremiah Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-46665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>JCB,
Interesting article.
I first experienced squatting in the 1970s while transiting the sand bank at the mouth of the Orino in a bulk carrier. Very similar to your description where the engines rev up but the ship slows down etc. Later I learnt the theory behind it in a graduate class. 

Theory will predict squatting for the specific conditions modeled in developing the theory that may or may not reflect the conditions at specific locations. Hence, there may be difference in what Dr Barras predicts and the Houston Pilots experience.

Dr. Barras talks about grounding but does not mention what happens next. When the ship &quot;grounds&quot; due to squatting the flow around the hull will change and conditions will refloat the vessel and provide passage for water under the vessel again but subsequently the vessel will &quot;ground&quot; again. In other words it will bump / scrape and lift at a reduced speed until it speeds up again and causes another squat / bump.
At the mouth of the Orinoco crossing the sand bar we experienced several bumps till be passed the sand bar.

De. Barras concern with safety due to gounding may be becuase he assumes that gounding will damage the hull but I believe, in most dredged ship channels these gounding / bumps area against mud or sand with little no no paint damage.

Shape of the Houston Ship Channel may not be condusive to squatting. It is not clear if the Houston Pilots experience bumps or scrapes against the channel with no other disturbances in the channel.

Nevertheless, Theory is as good as the assumpsion made and should be vidicated with real life experience. The analysis of the measurements taken on the vessels that Pilot Louis West mentioned should be completed, if for nothing, then just for acedemic purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JCB,<br />
Interesting article.<br />
I first experienced squatting in the 1970s while transiting the sand bank at the mouth of the Orino in a bulk carrier. Very similar to your description where the engines rev up but the ship slows down etc. Later I learnt the theory behind it in a graduate class. </p>
<p>Theory will predict squatting for the specific conditions modeled in developing the theory that may or may not reflect the conditions at specific locations. Hence, there may be difference in what Dr Barras predicts and the Houston Pilots experience.</p>
<p>Dr. Barras talks about grounding but does not mention what happens next. When the ship &#8220;grounds&#8221; due to squatting the flow around the hull will change and conditions will refloat the vessel and provide passage for water under the vessel again but subsequently the vessel will &#8220;ground&#8221; again. In other words it will bump / scrape and lift at a reduced speed until it speeds up again and causes another squat / bump.<br />
At the mouth of the Orinoco crossing the sand bar we experienced several bumps till be passed the sand bar.</p>
<p>De. Barras concern with safety due to gounding may be becuase he assumes that gounding will damage the hull but I believe, in most dredged ship channels these gounding / bumps area against mud or sand with little no no paint damage.</p>
<p>Shape of the Houston Ship Channel may not be condusive to squatting. It is not clear if the Houston Pilots experience bumps or scrapes against the channel with no other disturbances in the channel.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, Theory is as good as the assumpsion made and should be vidicated with real life experience. The analysis of the measurements taken on the vessels that Pilot Louis West mentioned should be completed, if for nothing, then just for acedemic purposes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: oes tsetnoc</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5205</link>
		<dc:creator>oes tsetnoc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 02:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>Great information thanks for sharing this with us.In fact in all posts of this blog their is something to learn.I wish I had found it sooner. Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great information thanks for sharing this with us.In fact in all posts of this blog their is something to learn.I wish I had found it sooner. Keep up the good work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Tod</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4653</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>Dear JCB

Thank you for this article which expresses exactly my own thoughts and experiences in 25 years of piloting. I have experienced the quarter wave breaking effect when navigating a 5m least depth channel only to discover that a 4.1m shoal had now extended nearly halfway into the channel. We scraped the bottom paint off the ship and I was mortified to later be told by 2 other pilots that they had &quot;smelled the bottom&quot; at this point some time earlier - but had neglected to report the matter. Pilots!

I am now going to look for your navigable mud article because Wyndham, WA, Australia has mud aplenty - a tidal range of 8m and mud/sandbanks which require annual surveying so we can plot next year&#039;s route.

Thanks again for your excellent article.

Regards

Brian Tod
Harbourmaster/Pilot
Wyndham Port</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear JCB</p>
<p>Thank you for this article which expresses exactly my own thoughts and experiences in 25 years of piloting. I have experienced the quarter wave breaking effect when navigating a 5m least depth channel only to discover that a 4.1m shoal had now extended nearly halfway into the channel. We scraped the bottom paint off the ship and I was mortified to later be told by 2 other pilots that they had &#8220;smelled the bottom&#8221; at this point some time earlier &#8211; but had neglected to report the matter. Pilots!</p>
<p>I am now going to look for your navigable mud article because Wyndham, WA, Australia has mud aplenty &#8211; a tidal range of 8m and mud/sandbanks which require annual surveying so we can plot next year&#8217;s route.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your excellent article.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Brian Tod<br />
Harbourmaster/Pilot<br />
Wyndham Port</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lou Vest</title>
		<link>http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-2989</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Vest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false"></guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to finally get some support from other pilots.

Interestinly, Dr. Barass; after trying to discredit me in the magazine with his second article, has never contacted me about my offer to observe squat (or lack thereof) in Houston.  Nor has any other hydrodynamacist.

Regarding the reliability of models.  Another of my disagreements with the professorial experts has been the validity of observations/tests/predictions based on data obtained from test tank models or mathematical models.  Validation of these models is important because ship designs, rudder designs, etc are increasingly made and tested on computers.  In some cases portions of sea trials are allowed to be simulated or performed in a test tank.  

In one of the numerous attempts to verify squat calculations that you described above, the USCOE funded an effort here in Houston.  The goal was to install highly accurate GPS units (+/- 2cm)on the bow, stern and beam ends of vessels making Houston transits.  The recorded data was to be made available online for investigators to use.  Last time I checked no one had done any work on the data.

More importantly, there were several ships calling in Houston at the time for which mathmatical models were available; the same models used for generating the graphics of simulators for example.  The researchers made the extra effort to record data from these vessels and in at least one instance two vessels met in the channel, both of which were equiped for data recording and both of which had known mathmatical models.  When the ships met bridge cameras were used to record the exact timing and sequence of pilot orders during the meeting.  (For those who aren&#039;t familiar, a meeting in Houston involves two ships meeting head on until about .5 mile and then swinging right to pass within 60-70 meters of each other in a 160m channel.)  

After the study, two of the researchers tried to recreate the maneuver on a simulator using the ship models, the recorded sequence of commands, and the recreated channel outlines.  The results did not conform to the actual meeting situation.  The simulator ships could not recreate the maneuver.  The reported the results were significantly different on the simulator from real life. I tried to convince them that a negative result was important and worth an article in one of the leading scientific journels, but they didn&#039;t seem to think so.

So.  How accurate is simulator training or simulator ship design? It&#039;s not just about squat.

Louis Vest.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to finally get some support from other pilots.</p>
<p>Interestinly, Dr. Barass; after trying to discredit me in the magazine with his second article, has never contacted me about my offer to observe squat (or lack thereof) in Houston.  Nor has any other hydrodynamacist.</p>
<p>Regarding the reliability of models.  Another of my disagreements with the professorial experts has been the validity of observations/tests/predictions based on data obtained from test tank models or mathematical models.  Validation of these models is important because ship designs, rudder designs, etc are increasingly made and tested on computers.  In some cases portions of sea trials are allowed to be simulated or performed in a test tank.  </p>
<p>In one of the numerous attempts to verify squat calculations that you described above, the USCOE funded an effort here in Houston.  The goal was to install highly accurate GPS units (+/- 2cm)on the bow, stern and beam ends of vessels making Houston transits.  The recorded data was to be made available online for investigators to use.  Last time I checked no one had done any work on the data.</p>
<p>More importantly, there were several ships calling in Houston at the time for which mathmatical models were available; the same models used for generating the graphics of simulators for example.  The researchers made the extra effort to record data from these vessels and in at least one instance two vessels met in the channel, both of which were equiped for data recording and both of which had known mathmatical models.  When the ships met bridge cameras were used to record the exact timing and sequence of pilot orders during the meeting.  (For those who aren&#8217;t familiar, a meeting in Houston involves two ships meeting head on until about .5 mile and then swinging right to pass within 60-70 meters of each other in a 160m channel.)  </p>
<p>After the study, two of the researchers tried to recreate the maneuver on a simulator using the ship models, the recorded sequence of commands, and the recreated channel outlines.  The results did not conform to the actual meeting situation.  The simulator ships could not recreate the maneuver.  The reported the results were significantly different on the simulator from real life. I tried to convince them that a negative result was important and worth an article in one of the leading scientific journels, but they didn&#8217;t seem to think so.</p>
<p>So.  How accurate is simulator training or simulator ship design? It&#8217;s not just about squat.</p>
<p>Louis Vest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- This Quick Cache file was built for (  www.pilotmag.co.uk/2008/02/01/squat-part-1/feed/ ) in 0.17525 seconds, on Feb 8th, 2012 at 9:22 pm UTC. -->
<!-- This Quick Cache file will automatically expire ( and be re-built automatically ) on Feb 8th, 2012 at 10:22 pm UTC -->
